20 Comments
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Thomas P. Balazs's avatar

Chabad has promoting this idea for decades for decades. Maybe other branches of Judaism will catch on.

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Happy's avatar

Well, well, that does sound rather kefiradike, almost...Sabbatean. I'm just waiting for Maskil to show up and blame the Zohar for this!

Second note, the comparison he makes between mental health and OTD reminds me of what I wrote https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/how-to-relate-to-nonbelievers and https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/the-judgement-of-bubbling-excrement

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Ash's avatar

I don't think he's making that comparison at all.

It's more that if you don't believe you will have a hard time keeping and hence not what Hashem wants from this person.

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Happy's avatar

Honestly it's hard to parse what he's saying. He explicitly compares OTD to mental health problems (*compares*, he doesn't say they are *synonymous*), then talks about a "normal yid"...is he still referring to OTD? Whatever it is, it's not good...

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Ash's avatar

I think you need to understand his audience here. Its a bunch of seriously frum avreichim. He's referring to an avreich or bochur who keeps missing Krias Shema or being motze zera levatala and are extremely anguished about it. He's telling them chill - Don't worry - it could be this is not your job in this world and you don't have to beat yourself up.

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Levy Katz's avatar

You still have to work on the issue though.

This approach is wonderful, as long as the growth isn’t absent from the equation, especially by the Kiras shma or zera levatala situation.

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Happy's avatar

שומו שמים...

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Hadasa's avatar

This reminds me of one of my favorite מדרשים. The מלאכים want to know, why should the בני ישראל be saved at the ים סוף if they also serve ע"ז just like the מצרים. The answer is because, the בני ישראל are not faulted for serving ע"ז. The test was too hard to pass.

When Hashem sends a test that is too hard to pass, we don't get faulted for failing. So even if some one was raised frum, he can still get a test that is too hard to pass and he won't get punished when he fails.

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

I have grappled with this subject a lot. I understand where he is coming from but I think it is quite a radical thing to say this flippantly...

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Zachary's avatar

Do you ever think that you're attached to fitting in an explanation or an approach to frum Judaism that makes you feel comfortable? An accepting approach that makes it more warm, despite the fact that the texts are not like that? Why can't the Torah and the halachos just be something you don't agree with/doesn't make you comfortable, and then allow yourself to make up your own religion or approach that does make you comfortable..... but what's up with the desperate attempts to make it something it's not.

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FreedomFighter's avatar

Who is to decide when not keeping Mitzvos is acceptable (only the Almighty?)? [If you were Roman Catholic, the Pope could grant dispensation or not.] Is there a physical or mental red line? Who will be honest in discriminating between I can't and I don't want to? Is this approach a slide into socialism-- from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?

This is a serious question whether one is Torah scholar or not.

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Rachel A Listener's avatar

Yes, we don’t know the other person’s situation or causes for their angst. We are not in a position to judge anyone based on our limited knowledge.

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R.Weiss's avatar

"Tinok Shenishba, Mental Health issues, and OTD". Wow he really puts OTD in that same category? Why am I not surprised

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Ash's avatar

What's wrong? Tinok Shenishba is not an insulting title either. He clearly means that if someone thinks it's not true they cannot be expected to keep the mitzvos. It isn't insulting in any way.

I sense projection from your response.

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R.Weiss's avatar

You can't put a person that is OTD and studied years in Yeshiva in the same list. There is no correlation between OTD and some form of limitation

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Ash's avatar

Why not?

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R.Weiss's avatar

Because the OTD person is educated (no educationally limitation), and is does not have mental issues (psychological limitations). He is not discussing OTD with mental health issues

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Ash's avatar

Why wouldn't his point apply?

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R.Weiss's avatar

OTD has full knowledge of what they are doing. They are not limited in any way, they are fully conscious and in control of their own actions. The other two categories are not

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