Dude. The revolution happened already in Israel. The supreme court is just putting the legal stamp of the majority DL world on the rabbinite which is influenced by chareidi or other conservative factors who don't really identify with the rabbanut anyways.
Will it overcome them or will they just ignore the ruling? I study law here and I've learned that the rabanut dosent always follow the bagatz. In family law this really comes to a head.
With all due respect, you seem to have confused me with one of of your fellow clueless OTDers. I know very well that this is unacceptable for any variety of Torah Judaism, not just chareidim.
Maybe that's technically true but it seems the judges or whoever is making this argument is being dishonest. A rabbanut exam is obviously a rabbinical exam. Would the court accept some other non-rabbinical-confering body offering this "academic degree exam"?
"Every religious Jew will then be entitled to disagree with it on any matter, because it will have become secular!"
This is already the case. Nobody sees the chief rabbinate as a serious religious authority in and of itself. AFAIK most of the mashgichei kashrut of the rabbinate eat Badatz, for instance.
As usual, they shot themselves in the foot by demanding smicha be recognized as an academic credential equivalent to Smadi's sociology degree from Afula Academic College in order for the holder to be able to milk a few thousand schmekels a month more from his gummint job. Well, if you look into the GOI, the GOI will look back into you.
"One is for those who wish to acquire rabbinic ordination to serve as communal rabbis in Israel, and the other is to grant financial benefits to those who have passed the examinations, as they are deemed equivalent to an academic degree, which in many professions including civil servants, police and academia, confers a higher level of remuneration."
Does this mean that men who pass the exam but are not "communal rabbis" receive higher wages if they teach in a school or yeshiva. because the exams "are deemed equivalent to an academic degree"? Then why shouldn't women be able to receive the benefits if they can pass the exam? The exam doesn't confer semicha, correct? There are women who operate at extremely high levels of scholarship who teach at seminaries, etc. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for their efforts?
(An easy "solution" [which isn't really needed, in my opinion], is to create a 2nd but equivalent track in the exam for those not eligible to receive semicha.)
>Does this mean that men who pass the exam but are not "communal rabbis" receive higher wages if they teach in a school or yeshiva. because the exams "are deemed equivalent to an academic degree"?
As I understand it, that is correct. Male teachers who do not serve as communal rabbis but have a Chief Rabbinate certificate get paid more than their female counterparts. This is likely part of the reason for the ruling, because that's a blatant violation of the State of Israel's equal rights laws.
Like, sort of, but not really. They're seen as equivalent to an academic degree. So a male teacher with a rabanut certificate but no degree will be paid the same as a female teacher with a degree. But it's a bit of a legal fiction, because there are barely any female degree-less teachers in Israel...
"I don’t know how many women would even be able to pass." None of us do because they have not been able to try. You know they used to say this about women who wanted to be doctors, right?
"This whole thing is retarded honestly." Not useful as an argument.
I don’t care if it’s a useful argument. I’m saying the idea and the whole hullabaloo against it is stupid. Then again I’m an outside observer 6000 miles away (unfortunately).
1. Musmachim get voted in by a board to be community rabbi, city rabbi etc.
2. There are midrashot where women learn and there already are women who are more learned. The argument is that once there's an option for semicha there will be more schools which teach gemara at a young age. The counter argument is why there hasn't been even more of a bottom up interest even without semicha. Is it just that boys have a cultural drive or is there more at play?
It's encouraged more for boys than for girls. However there will always be Bruriahs with natural ability and drive. They should also be encouraged to learn at the highest levels, and if rewards are being given out for a certain level of achievement, they should also be eligible. I am NOT saying they should get semicha.
Dude. The revolution happened already in Israel. The supreme court is just putting the legal stamp of the majority DL world on the rabbinite which is influenced by chareidi or other conservative factors who don't really identify with the rabbanut anyways.
I am aware. I don't understand the need for this. It will just backfire.
It won't. And the need for it is to overcome to conservative influence on the institution of the rabbanut which is not even meant to represent them
Will it overcome them or will they just ignore the ruling? I study law here and I've learned that the rabanut dosent always follow the bagatz. In family law this really comes to a head.
No idea but the DL community seems to overwhelmingly support the ruling
Only the liberal dati world. Im sure in much of the yeshivot they're up in arms.
I just want to point out that the ruling was written by a dati justice, something not made clear in the post
I should have made that clear. thanks
I thought the Rabbinate is a Torah institution... seems to confirm the idea of war against the Torah.
You seem to have confused Torah Institution with ultra orthodox/chareidi institution. It’s a common mistake.
With all due respect, you seem to have confused me with one of of your fellow clueless OTDers. I know very well that this is unacceptable for any variety of Torah Judaism, not just chareidim.
To take the tests? Or to learn?
Isn't the point of the test to get the title of rabbi?
no, its to get an academic degree equivalent
Maybe that's technically true but it seems the judges or whoever is making this argument is being dishonest. A rabbanut exam is obviously a rabbinical exam. Would the court accept some other non-rabbinical-confering body offering this "academic degree exam"?
It's known as legal sophistry. They pretend its just about the benefits of the academic degree, but it's really about something else.
Many don't go by the title rabbi. There are baalebatim who get smicha and then move on in their professional lives.
Sure, but it's still a semicha exam for the title rabbi, whether people use it or not.
Sharp
It's no secret that the Supreme Court wants to enforce liberal values wherever it can.
"Every religious Jew will then be entitled to disagree with it on any matter, because it will have become secular!"
This is already the case. Nobody sees the chief rabbinate as a serious religious authority in and of itself. AFAIK most of the mashgichei kashrut of the rabbinate eat Badatz, for instance.
As usual, they shot themselves in the foot by demanding smicha be recognized as an academic credential equivalent to Smadi's sociology degree from Afula Academic College in order for the holder to be able to milk a few thousand schmekels a month more from his gummint job. Well, if you look into the GOI, the GOI will look back into you.
"One is for those who wish to acquire rabbinic ordination to serve as communal rabbis in Israel, and the other is to grant financial benefits to those who have passed the examinations, as they are deemed equivalent to an academic degree, which in many professions including civil servants, police and academia, confers a higher level of remuneration."
Does this mean that men who pass the exam but are not "communal rabbis" receive higher wages if they teach in a school or yeshiva. because the exams "are deemed equivalent to an academic degree"? Then why shouldn't women be able to receive the benefits if they can pass the exam? The exam doesn't confer semicha, correct? There are women who operate at extremely high levels of scholarship who teach at seminaries, etc. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for their efforts?
(An easy "solution" [which isn't really needed, in my opinion], is to create a 2nd but equivalent track in the exam for those not eligible to receive semicha.)
>Does this mean that men who pass the exam but are not "communal rabbis" receive higher wages if they teach in a school or yeshiva. because the exams "are deemed equivalent to an academic degree"?
As I understand it, that is correct. Male teachers who do not serve as communal rabbis but have a Chief Rabbinate certificate get paid more than their female counterparts. This is likely part of the reason for the ruling, because that's a blatant violation of the State of Israel's equal rights laws.
Like, sort of, but not really. They're seen as equivalent to an academic degree. So a male teacher with a rabanut certificate but no degree will be paid the same as a female teacher with a degree. But it's a bit of a legal fiction, because there are barely any female degree-less teachers in Israel...
At least this will put things on the table as most frum jews don't truly recognize the rabanut anyway.
Zini's comment is completely over-the-top.
A. Doesn’t the rabanut have the right to accept or reject any applicant to either the post or benefits?
B. I don’t know how many women would even be able to pass.
This whole thing is retarded honestly.
"I don’t know how many women would even be able to pass." None of us do because they have not been able to try. You know they used to say this about women who wanted to be doctors, right?
"This whole thing is retarded honestly." Not useful as an argument.
I don’t care if it’s a useful argument. I’m saying the idea and the whole hullabaloo against it is stupid. Then again I’m an outside observer 6000 miles away (unfortunately).
1. Musmachim get voted in by a board to be community rabbi, city rabbi etc.
2. There are midrashot where women learn and there already are women who are more learned. The argument is that once there's an option for semicha there will be more schools which teach gemara at a young age. The counter argument is why there hasn't been even more of a bottom up interest even without semicha. Is it just that boys have a cultural drive or is there more at play?
It's encouraged more for boys than for girls. However there will always be Bruriahs with natural ability and drive. They should also be encouraged to learn at the highest levels, and if rewards are being given out for a certain level of achievement, they should also be eligible. I am NOT saying they should get semicha.
Valid.