36 Comments
User's avatar
Simon Furst's avatar

Dude. The revolution happened already in Israel. The supreme court is just putting the legal stamp of the majority DL world on the rabbinite which is influenced by chareidi or other conservative factors who don't really identify with the rabbanut anyways.

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

I am aware. I don't understand the need for this. It will just backfire.

Expand full comment
Simon Furst's avatar

It won't. And the need for it is to overcome to conservative influence on the institution of the rabbanut which is not even meant to represent them

Expand full comment
Avraham marcus's avatar

Will it overcome them or will they just ignore the ruling? I study law here and I've learned that the rabanut dosent always follow the bagatz. In family law this really comes to a head.

Expand full comment
Simon Furst's avatar

No idea but the DL community seems to overwhelmingly support the ruling

Expand full comment
Avraham marcus's avatar

Only the liberal dati world. Im sure in much of the yeshivot they're up in arms.

Expand full comment
Simon Furst's avatar

I just want to point out that the ruling was written by a dati justice, something not made clear in the post

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

I should have made that clear. thanks

Expand full comment
Happy's avatar

I thought the Rabbinate is a Torah institution... seems to confirm the idea of war against the Torah.

Expand full comment
Nochum Weiss's avatar

You seem to have confused Torah Institution with ultra orthodox/chareidi institution. It’s a common mistake.

Expand full comment
Happy's avatar

With all due respect, you seem to have confused me with one of of your fellow clueless OTDers. I know very well that this is unacceptable for any variety of Torah Judaism, not just chareidim.

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

To take the tests? Or to learn?

Expand full comment
Happy's avatar

Isn't the point of the test to get the title of rabbi?

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

no, its to get an academic degree equivalent

Expand full comment
Happy's avatar

Maybe that's technically true but it seems the judges or whoever is making this argument is being dishonest. A rabbanut exam is obviously a rabbinical exam. Would the court accept some other non-rabbinical-confering body offering this "academic degree exam"?

Expand full comment
זכרון דברים's avatar

It's known as legal sophistry. They pretend its just about the benefits of the academic degree, but it's really about something else.

Expand full comment
Avraham marcus's avatar

Many don't go by the title rabbi. There are baalebatim who get smicha and then move on in their professional lives.

Expand full comment
Happy's avatar

Sure, but it's still a semicha exam for the title rabbi, whether people use it or not.

Expand full comment
Simon Furst's avatar

Sharp

Expand full comment
Avraham marcus's avatar

It's no secret that the Supreme Court wants to enforce liberal values wherever it can.

Expand full comment
Baruch Hasofer's avatar

"Every religious Jew will then be entitled to disagree with it on any matter, because it will have become secular!"

This is already the case. Nobody sees the chief rabbinate as a serious religious authority in and of itself. AFAIK most of the mashgichei kashrut of the rabbinate eat Badatz, for instance.

As usual, they shot themselves in the foot by demanding smicha be recognized as an academic credential equivalent to Smadi's sociology degree from Afula Academic College in order for the holder to be able to milk a few thousand schmekels a month more from his gummint job. Well, if you look into the GOI, the GOI will look back into you.

Expand full comment
ItCouldBeWorse's avatar

"One is for those who wish to acquire rabbinic ordination to serve as communal rabbis in Israel, and the other is to grant financial benefits to those who have passed the examinations, as they are deemed equivalent to an academic degree, which in many professions including civil servants, police and academia, confers a higher level of remuneration."

Does this mean that men who pass the exam but are not "communal rabbis" receive higher wages if they teach in a school or yeshiva. because the exams "are deemed equivalent to an academic degree"? Then why shouldn't women be able to receive the benefits if they can pass the exam? The exam doesn't confer semicha, correct? There are women who operate at extremely high levels of scholarship who teach at seminaries, etc. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for their efforts?

(An easy "solution" [which isn't really needed, in my opinion], is to create a 2nd but equivalent track in the exam for those not eligible to receive semicha.)

Expand full comment
James Nicholson's avatar

>Does this mean that men who pass the exam but are not "communal rabbis" receive higher wages if they teach in a school or yeshiva. because the exams "are deemed equivalent to an academic degree"?

As I understand it, that is correct. Male teachers who do not serve as communal rabbis but have a Chief Rabbinate certificate get paid more than their female counterparts. This is likely part of the reason for the ruling, because that's a blatant violation of the State of Israel's equal rights laws.

Expand full comment
Netanel Prebor's avatar

Like, sort of, but not really. They're seen as equivalent to an academic degree. So a male teacher with a rabanut certificate but no degree will be paid the same as a female teacher with a degree. But it's a bit of a legal fiction, because there are barely any female degree-less teachers in Israel...

Expand full comment
Avraham marcus's avatar

At least this will put things on the table as most frum jews don't truly recognize the rabanut anyway.

Expand full comment
Jew Well's avatar

Zini's comment is completely over-the-top.

Expand full comment
Levy Katz's avatar

A. Doesn’t the rabanut have the right to accept or reject any applicant to either the post or benefits?

B. I don’t know how many women would even be able to pass.

This whole thing is retarded honestly.

Expand full comment
ItCouldBeWorse's avatar

"I don’t know how many women would even be able to pass." None of us do because they have not been able to try. You know they used to say this about women who wanted to be doctors, right?

"This whole thing is retarded honestly." Not useful as an argument.

Expand full comment
Levy Katz's avatar

I don’t care if it’s a useful argument. I’m saying the idea and the whole hullabaloo against it is stupid. Then again I’m an outside observer 6000 miles away (unfortunately).

Expand full comment
Avraham marcus's avatar

1. Musmachim get voted in by a board to be community rabbi, city rabbi etc.

2. There are midrashot where women learn and there already are women who are more learned. The argument is that once there's an option for semicha there will be more schools which teach gemara at a young age. The counter argument is why there hasn't been even more of a bottom up interest even without semicha. Is it just that boys have a cultural drive or is there more at play?

Expand full comment
ItCouldBeWorse's avatar

It's encouraged more for boys than for girls. However there will always be Bruriahs with natural ability and drive. They should also be encouraged to learn at the highest levels, and if rewards are being given out for a certain level of achievement, they should also be eligible. I am NOT saying they should get semicha.

Expand full comment
Levy Katz's avatar

Valid.

Expand full comment