With all due respect Ash, I think you should be very happy that the Lakewood RYs are not involved in the important things. You would be complaining a lot more than you do now... Be happy that they are sticking with irrelevant WZO things.
I think the missing piece here is that no-one considers the BMG RY to be actual authorities. Was this the only teshuva Reb Malkiel wrote in his life? I guess, because here it is easy to just quote Reb Elchonon, the zaide and Reb Reuven (Agav, the whole idea that Reb Reuven's hashkafos are the source for the Charedi position is laughable. Besides that his reasoning of aveirah lishma is faulty, who in Israel even heard of Reb Reuven, and Reb Reuven himself mentions this. The קברניט האומה of the Charedim was the Chazon Ish, who argues vehemently with Reb Elchonon's understanding of the issur hischabrus l'rshaim.), relevant or not. (The gedolim of the Diaspora are people like Reb Dovid Feinstein and Reb Avrohom Gurwitz,but that is a separate point.)
In fact, this is obviously the reason for all the asifos and screaming about ads. They now no-one cares for their opinion so they have to employ scare tactics. Essentially it is a pwergrab. And people feel that power isn't deserved.
If they would be true gedolei hador (in acts of chesed see Rashi Pesachim ) and consistently show their care for the the needs of their community people would respect their power. But if they show no concern for the needs of their community, and only use their power to enforce irrelevant made-up controversial issurim, they lose all respect.
No, it is a sign of his chashivus that he knows his limitations.
But we desperately need a Reb Chaim Ozer in our lives. We need someone who does involve himself in public issues, from a clean Torah perspective. Someone who has spent years steeped in learning and only learning, and also has the talents and abilities to deal with a wide variety of people.
In my experience most (though certainly not all - not Gershon Ribner) of the Lakewood RY have emotional empathy. The point of this post is to explain why the empathy doesn't pan out in real life.
Why is there an assumption that if a frum Jew is voting in WZO, that they should vote for Eretz HaKodesh? Mizrachi is actually much closer to the value system of American frum Jews, even yeshivish ones, if you look beyond the color of the yarmulke.
These silly comments from Slifkin just highlight how deluded he is.
...The American yeshivish olam has values that are close to Mizrachi...
Think about that statement for a moment. If anybody else said that, I would assume that person was high on pot. With Slifkin, he's high on his own supply.
Well, the most fundamental difference is this: Mizrachi is a Zionist organization. Its assigns intrinsic value to a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, even if secular. This is in fact the primary Zionist value. The yeshivish and chareidim have never accepted this- even those who are not so anti-Zionist appreciate the state as a safe haven for Jewish people and a supporter of Torah, and the fact that it is in the Land of Israel might be viewed as a great bonus. But they don't assign specific value to a State run by secular Jews. If anything, they see that as a negative.
A lot of this disagreement is dependent upon how one views secular "Judaism". Zionists generally see this as a positive thing, and may even prefer it to religious non-Zionist Judaism, but the yeshivish/chareidim mostly see it as unambiguously terrible. Silkin himself is an example of a pretty far-gone secularist Zionist. I am not sure to what extent he does or does not adhere to halacha, but he is an apostate who denies the fundamentals of our faith, has mocked religious Judaism on many occasions, and his value system is substantially similar to Reform Judaism with some of his own little twists.
Eretz Hakodesh claim to be diluting the power of the reform movement. Mizrachi isn't. That is why the assumption that people should vote for EH is correct. Voting for Mizrachi, under these circumstances, is not a vote for Yiddishkeit, it is merely a party affiliation, that Lakewood people don't have.
Slifkin seems to be under the illusion that his Mancunian roots taught him how American frum people think. Then again, thinking was never his strong point.
A lot of American ultra Orthodox Jews have 2 kids of values. One is the values they feel and will talk about on a personal level. The second and deeper level of values is one they don’t have direct epistemic access to, but rather get access through the Rabonim who they trust as the conduit of that information from hashem.
When you have something like the WZO, people mostly trust their Rabonim that hashem wants a specific vote even if upon reflection of their personal values, another group would prevail.
I don't think it is the reputation of BMG as an institution that is driving this ridiculous tumult.
The 'leaders' of BMG know perfectly well that nobody will spend a penny on their leadership. If people had a choice, they would vote for someone else, follow someone else, and ignore them completely. The system is set up that their power is as subtle as possible, and any uprising will look like bitterness and negativity. Unlike Rebbes and Chassidim (perhaps more similar to the current Satmar - Zali faction), even those inclined to transfer their brains to daas torah, are under no illusion that the owners of the real estate of BMG Inc. have any supplies of this commodity.
When it comes to signing silly street signs about peshuto shel mikra, when they laugh about it to anyone who talks to them, they remind people of their existence, but their power is still zilch.
Now they had a chance to lead from the rear (double meaning intended). They can get up and fill a room with people and nonsense, combining the two with a boycott that nobody will follow. They can rant and rave about a history that never happened, 'mesorah' that they read about in the newpaper (literally, they quote Nati Grossman's article in the newspaper against Shas as a source to their mesora), and the vast majority will follow their lead. Their leadership has been announced, people follow their directives.
Look, when there are no bagels for long enough, people will eventually eat stale bread.
Evil is a strong word. But I think their chinuch is that a Yeshiva is about them and their advancement, not about the public at all.
I did not arrive at this conclusion from observing their actions. Many conversations with family members and sycophants taught me this.
As I told you some time ago, it's not the ideal that's the problem, it's the actualization in BMG, as they veer from the ideals that we were taught, that is the problem.
They are constantly quoting Reb Elyashiv's נבלה נעשתה בישראל, when there is no source to his having said that, besides a Yated article about Shas with that headline, when the Yated claimed to be under the jurisdiction of Rav Elyashiv.
Nati Grossman (also referred to as Natan Grossman in some sources) was replaced as editor of the Israeli Yated Ne'eman newspaper by Rabbi Binyamin (Benny) Rabinowitz. This change occurred following a significant shift in the newspaper's management in 2012. Grossman had been a long-standing editor, having succeeded the founding editor Rabbi Moshe Grylak in 1988. However, internal power struggles within the Lithuanian Haredi community and the Degel HaTorah faction, which the newspaper represents, led to his ouster.
The transition was part of a broader upheaval at Yated Ne'eman, driven by a contest for leadership following the death of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv in July 2012, a key figure in the Lithuanian ultra-Orthodox community. Two prominent rabbis, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman and Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach, emerged as contenders to succeed Elyashiv. Grossman was aligned with Rabbi Elyashiv and later with Rabbi Auerbach, while the new management, backed by Rabbi Shteinman, sought to realign the newspaper's direction.
In June 2012, the Yatedot nonprofit organization, which controls Yated Ne'eman, appointed Shimon Glick as the new director, replacing Rabbi Yaakov Labin. This paved the way for Rabbi Binyamin Rabinowitz to take over as editor, reflecting the influence of Rabbi Shteinman’s faction. The shift was solidified when Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, a senior figure and supporter of Shteinman, publicly endorsed Rabinowitz’s leadership in a letter published in the newspaper, stating that Shteinman was now the leader of the Lithuanian community and that Rabinowitz would guide Yated Ne'eman accordingly.
Grossman, after his removal, joined Hapeles, a rival ultra-Orthodox newspaper founded by Rabbi Auerbach’s faction, marking a split within the community and its media outlets. Thus, Rabbi Binyamin Rabinowitz replaced Nati Grossman as editor of the Israeli Yated Ne'eman in 2012 amid these factional changes.
In the first month of the war, school was cancelled and having not served in the army, I can't be called up, so I didn't have what to do and I spent some time volunteering making burgers for soldiers like a cringe Anglo frummy. Mostly, I enjoyed it, but one time we were on a נצח יהודה base, and after we were finished, I sat down to eat a burger and soldier whipped out his phone and showed me some kid in Gaza on a pile of rubble all mangled up.
At the time, I was mostly mad because now I couldn't finish the burger, but the reason I'm bringing the story is this: when Charedim go Zionist they have no clue whatsoever where to quit. Basically every chimpout now at Sha'ar Shechem is more than 50% charedim just acting like total behemos.
You may wish it wasn't so and Charedim could engage with Zionism thoughtfully and reflectively, but it's not so. The system wasn't designed to bend, so it snaps. And if you don't believe me and think actually Charedim can pull it off, then Eretz haKodesh are not your guys, because they are genocidal maniacs who would make Israel flame out in some regional super-war like Nazi Germany if they got their way. So best for everyone - literally - if Charedim sit it out, and it really doesn't matter what the reason given for this is. This is daas Torah in action, non-ironically.
Or to put it more simply. The problem isn't the WZO, that's just an excuse. The problem is Eretz haKodesh.
Do you have any specific examples of Zionistic propaganda promoted by Eretz Hakodesh to charedim that causes you concern and is this because of the EH leadership or would it be a problem with anything under the umbrella of WZO?
Pesach Lerner is the head of Eretz haKodesh. He has a fairly large internet footprint, and it's 1/3 attacking Reform, 1/3 pro Jonathan Pollard, and 1/3 miscellaneous Israeli jingoism. The Pollard stuff is most disturbing IMO, since he is on YouTube now every week discussing which country he would like to nuke today.
Israel Perpetrated 9/11 - an inside job - controlled demolition, and Israel Mossad had a hand in on it - setting up the demolition ordinances (Dancing Israelis).
I went to Lakewood. Nobody Would talk to me. You call that pluralistic? I once went to the Yeshivia Talmudical Academy of Central NJ Adelphia. rabbi Trenk was my teacher. He died recently.
See that is what I mean? This exclusivising. I can’t be an orthodox Jew unless im YOUR yiddishkite version. I know what Benching after meals is. This licht-benching is you trying to tell me I’m not orthodox Jew if Im not YOUR heathen pagan nonsense version of it. You are hijackers of Torah authority and thieves. You sold my shul into idolatry and stole the money out of the community and dare to question my Orthodoxy.
this "individual Jewish community own path" is a THEIVING of Jewish institutions away from the Jewish general public and stolen into exclusivism. A Jewish institution is for all Jews from anywhere. But you will have it that any Jewish institution in a community is EXCLUSIVE to that community and not available to the general Jewish public except by invitation. You are destroyers of American Judaism. Destroyers of the Orthodox Union of American Synagogues. Destroyers of NCSY.
YOUR PLURALISM IS DIVISIONISM AND EXCLUSIVISM - "Satan's Hassidim" -Tales of the Hassidim.
No, I'm trying to show you are a liar and misrepresent yourself as an exorthodox Jew who now believes in Jesus when you clearly are not. You are faker than the 9/11 hijackers.
So why did you destroy NCSY? Why did you destroy the Orthodox Union of American Synagogues? Why did you frame up Baruch Lanner. Why did you sell my shul into idolatry and steel the money out of the community? Why when I go into what was an Orthodox Union syangogue they no longer sing the service like they used to, no longer the same order, deliberately sung out of unison, changed over the translations with false translations, removed all the kabbalistic songs out of the Haggada…. and act like I had to make an appointment to show up to a Jewish synagogue on Shabbos?
This is not communal growth - it is American Jewry subversion and theft of Jewish resources away from the general American Jewish community and exclusivising it’s administration under Zionist devils.
There are many institutions which welcome all jews. Ever heard of Aish? NCSY? Chabad? what type of pluralism do you want? Dud they shun you for preaching a false subversive religion maybe?
First let me give a full disclosure I voted for Eretz Hakadosh. My BIL is a candidate on their slate. My son (who is to the left of me) had a summer job setting up the elections, That said, this post badly mispresents their issue with voting in the WZO election. They don't claim to believe anyone will become an apikorus by doing so. They are inherently opposed to doing to so for the reasons they gave. Not made up ones of anyone becoming an apikorus in the future by doing so. The status quo of not voting in WZO election by ALL segments of the Charedi world is solidly on their side. And always has been. They aren’t remotely making a new ban and demanding people go along. They are fighting what they see as a serious breach. Unlike some of the other issues mentioned here, that serious as they are there, there is little they can do anything about anyway. they can prevent voting in WZO becoming the new norm by making an issue out of it. Finally lets say this would be the other way around and the Roshei Yeshiva would put enormous time and energy into addressing social issues that exists in Lakewood. Most of the people who ignore their views now, would ignore them then too.
Don't be so hard on the Kotler family (your note 5). The fact that in the Encyclopedia Judaica they were _zocheh_ to be right next to Sandy Koufax, the renowned Jewish baseball player who made a _Kiddush Hashem_ by refusing to pitch in the World Series on Yom Kippur, shows that they are themselves also not entirely without merit. (Contrary to appearances, lexicographical proximity of their surnames played no role in that.)
This is not referring to the kol koreh which I am fine with. It's referring to the asifa before the kol koreh, the protests outside peoples home who were for the WZO, and the pressure applied internally in the Agudah to release it. There were also two Lakewood kol korehs well before this Agudah one.
There was an energy put into this by Lakewood rabbanim we have not seen in other issues.
With all due respect Ash, I think you should be very happy that the Lakewood RYs are not involved in the important things. You would be complaining a lot more than you do now... Be happy that they are sticking with irrelevant WZO things.
Unfortunately, you are right! But then Id still get a lot of blog posts out of it.
My initial comment was a mistake. I didn't read your comment properly.
Does it count if they visit Lakewood a lot? 😂
It counts if it is relevant to them.
If they visit a lot, I assume they have close relatives there.
Perhaps they should ask those relatives if they think this issue is relevant to them.
I think the missing piece here is that no-one considers the BMG RY to be actual authorities. Was this the only teshuva Reb Malkiel wrote in his life? I guess, because here it is easy to just quote Reb Elchonon, the zaide and Reb Reuven (Agav, the whole idea that Reb Reuven's hashkafos are the source for the Charedi position is laughable. Besides that his reasoning of aveirah lishma is faulty, who in Israel even heard of Reb Reuven, and Reb Reuven himself mentions this. The קברניט האומה of the Charedim was the Chazon Ish, who argues vehemently with Reb Elchonon's understanding of the issur hischabrus l'rshaim.), relevant or not. (The gedolim of the Diaspora are people like Reb Dovid Feinstein and Reb Avrohom Gurwitz,but that is a separate point.)
In fact, this is obviously the reason for all the asifos and screaming about ads. They now no-one cares for their opinion so they have to employ scare tactics. Essentially it is a pwergrab. And people feel that power isn't deserved.
If they would be true gedolei hador (in acts of chesed see Rashi Pesachim ) and consistently show their care for the the needs of their community people would respect their power. But if they show no concern for the needs of their community, and only use their power to enforce irrelevant made-up controversial issurim, they lose all respect.
Reb Avraham hardly involves himself in public issues, and certainly does not involve himself in US issues.
Yitzy Lichtenstein is married to a descendant of Reb Reuven. But his ignoring his own ancestor, the Netziv, is glaring.
He did this time and was mocked and ignored.
Reb Avrohom was primarily addressing people here (the UK), and not the US. His words were not ignored here.
So?
Fact is, the BMG RY don't hold a candle to him and it is a chutzpa for them to act this way.
מי זה Yitzy Lichtenstein?
>Reb Avraham hardly involves himself in public issues
Don't you agree that that is what makes a true gadol?
No, it is a sign of his chashivus that he knows his limitations.
But we desperately need a Reb Chaim Ozer in our lives. We need someone who does involve himself in public issues, from a clean Torah perspective. Someone who has spent years steeped in learning and only learning, and also has the talents and abilities to deal with a wide variety of people.
Oh right, the RY of Torah Vadaas.
He has something to say on this?
Are you kidding me?
https://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2025/03/video-rav-yitzchok-lichtenstein-on.html
Enjoy, especially his Yiddish. His channeling his grandfather's way of saying 'reidn' as well as his English expressions with the contrasting accent.
Precisely. Happy to let you write a guest post if you'd like.
(I don't like writing so sharply...)
Addressing the other issues you cited would require emotional empathy and constructive, well-reasoned thinking.
Banning things (WZO, Peshuto Shel Mikra, IDF Service) does not.
In my experience most (though certainly not all - not Gershon Ribner) of the Lakewood RY have emotional empathy. The point of this post is to explain why the empathy doesn't pan out in real life.
Because it requires constructive, well-reasoned thinking?
Yes. Which an antivaxxer qanon theorist among other beliefs lack.
Why is there an assumption that if a frum Jew is voting in WZO, that they should vote for Eretz HaKodesh? Mizrachi is actually much closer to the value system of American frum Jews, even yeshivish ones, if you look beyond the color of the yarmulke.
I don't believe I make that assumption.
The reality is though here in Lakewood anyone who is voting will be voting for Eretz haKodesh.
Also, wasn't there some sort of scandal Pink Dunner exposed where Mizrachi signed early with reform?
These silly comments from Slifkin just highlight how deluded he is.
...The American yeshivish olam has values that are close to Mizrachi...
Think about that statement for a moment. If anybody else said that, I would assume that person was high on pot. With Slifkin, he's high on his own supply.
I am pretty ignorant about this topic. What are some things that Mizrachi values to illustrate how it’s not similar to American Yeshivish values?
Well, the most fundamental difference is this: Mizrachi is a Zionist organization. Its assigns intrinsic value to a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, even if secular. This is in fact the primary Zionist value. The yeshivish and chareidim have never accepted this- even those who are not so anti-Zionist appreciate the state as a safe haven for Jewish people and a supporter of Torah, and the fact that it is in the Land of Israel might be viewed as a great bonus. But they don't assign specific value to a State run by secular Jews. If anything, they see that as a negative.
A lot of this disagreement is dependent upon how one views secular "Judaism". Zionists generally see this as a positive thing, and may even prefer it to religious non-Zionist Judaism, but the yeshivish/chareidim mostly see it as unambiguously terrible. Silkin himself is an example of a pretty far-gone secularist Zionist. I am not sure to what extent he does or does not adhere to halacha, but he is an apostate who denies the fundamentals of our faith, has mocked religious Judaism on many occasions, and his value system is substantially similar to Reform Judaism with some of his own little twists.
Practically, in terms of policy how might that matter?
Most of the practical differences between non-chareidim and chareidim in Israel are directly related to that.
Eretz Hakodesh claim to be diluting the power of the reform movement. Mizrachi isn't. That is why the assumption that people should vote for EH is correct. Voting for Mizrachi, under these circumstances, is not a vote for Yiddishkeit, it is merely a party affiliation, that Lakewood people don't have.
Slifkin seems to be under the illusion that his Mancunian roots taught him how American frum people think. Then again, thinking was never his strong point.
Because of people like you.
Here’s a theory:
A lot of American ultra Orthodox Jews have 2 kids of values. One is the values they feel and will talk about on a personal level. The second and deeper level of values is one they don’t have direct epistemic access to, but rather get access through the Rabonim who they trust as the conduit of that information from hashem.
When you have something like the WZO, people mostly trust their Rabonim that hashem wants a specific vote even if upon reflection of their personal values, another group would prevail.
Also because of this https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/gaza-wins-and-losses/comment/87182509 and this https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/gaza-wins-and-losses/comment/86729275
I don't think it is the reputation of BMG as an institution that is driving this ridiculous tumult.
The 'leaders' of BMG know perfectly well that nobody will spend a penny on their leadership. If people had a choice, they would vote for someone else, follow someone else, and ignore them completely. The system is set up that their power is as subtle as possible, and any uprising will look like bitterness and negativity. Unlike Rebbes and Chassidim (perhaps more similar to the current Satmar - Zali faction), even those inclined to transfer their brains to daas torah, are under no illusion that the owners of the real estate of BMG Inc. have any supplies of this commodity.
When it comes to signing silly street signs about peshuto shel mikra, when they laugh about it to anyone who talks to them, they remind people of their existence, but their power is still zilch.
Now they had a chance to lead from the rear (double meaning intended). They can get up and fill a room with people and nonsense, combining the two with a boycott that nobody will follow. They can rant and rave about a history that never happened, 'mesorah' that they read about in the newpaper (literally, they quote Nati Grossman's article in the newspaper against Shas as a source to their mesora), and the vast majority will follow their lead. Their leadership has been announced, people follow their directives.
Look, when there are no bagels for long enough, people will eventually eat stale bread.
I have to say you have a way with words. Id push back on the power trip. Do you actually think BMG and co are evil? I don't think its conscious.
Halevai their power is zilch. They still have a lot of sway here...
Evil is a strong word. But I think their chinuch is that a Yeshiva is about them and their advancement, not about the public at all.
I did not arrive at this conclusion from observing their actions. Many conversations with family members and sycophants taught me this.
As I told you some time ago, it's not the ideal that's the problem, it's the actualization in BMG, as they veer from the ideals that we were taught, that is the problem.
Did they actually quote Nati Grossman's article? Do you have a link to that? His ravings were legendary.
He was still better than the guy who replaced him by virtue of not raping girls, but whatever.
The gedolim really need to up their shtadlanus game.
They are constantly quoting Reb Elyashiv's נבלה נעשתה בישראל, when there is no source to his having said that, besides a Yated article about Shas with that headline, when the Yated claimed to be under the jurisdiction of Rav Elyashiv.
See here - https://www.ynet.co.il/article/3854165
I don't think CW replaced him.
Pretty sure he did.
Here's Grok's answer:
Nati Grossman (also referred to as Natan Grossman in some sources) was replaced as editor of the Israeli Yated Ne'eman newspaper by Rabbi Binyamin (Benny) Rabinowitz. This change occurred following a significant shift in the newspaper's management in 2012. Grossman had been a long-standing editor, having succeeded the founding editor Rabbi Moshe Grylak in 1988. However, internal power struggles within the Lithuanian Haredi community and the Degel HaTorah faction, which the newspaper represents, led to his ouster.
The transition was part of a broader upheaval at Yated Ne'eman, driven by a contest for leadership following the death of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv in July 2012, a key figure in the Lithuanian ultra-Orthodox community. Two prominent rabbis, Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman and Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach, emerged as contenders to succeed Elyashiv. Grossman was aligned with Rabbi Elyashiv and later with Rabbi Auerbach, while the new management, backed by Rabbi Shteinman, sought to realign the newspaper's direction.
In June 2012, the Yatedot nonprofit organization, which controls Yated Ne'eman, appointed Shimon Glick as the new director, replacing Rabbi Yaakov Labin. This paved the way for Rabbi Binyamin Rabinowitz to take over as editor, reflecting the influence of Rabbi Shteinman’s faction. The shift was solidified when Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, a senior figure and supporter of Shteinman, publicly endorsed Rabinowitz’s leadership in a letter published in the newspaper, stating that Shteinman was now the leader of the Lithuanian community and that Rabinowitz would guide Yated Ne'eman accordingly.
Grossman, after his removal, joined Hapeles, a rival ultra-Orthodox newspaper founded by Rabbi Auerbach’s faction, marking a split within the community and its media outlets. Thus, Rabbi Binyamin Rabinowitz replaced Nati Grossman as editor of the Israeli Yated Ne'eman in 2012 amid these factional changes.
Grok is as reliable as the Yated.
In the first month of the war, school was cancelled and having not served in the army, I can't be called up, so I didn't have what to do and I spent some time volunteering making burgers for soldiers like a cringe Anglo frummy. Mostly, I enjoyed it, but one time we were on a נצח יהודה base, and after we were finished, I sat down to eat a burger and soldier whipped out his phone and showed me some kid in Gaza on a pile of rubble all mangled up.
At the time, I was mostly mad because now I couldn't finish the burger, but the reason I'm bringing the story is this: when Charedim go Zionist they have no clue whatsoever where to quit. Basically every chimpout now at Sha'ar Shechem is more than 50% charedim just acting like total behemos.
You may wish it wasn't so and Charedim could engage with Zionism thoughtfully and reflectively, but it's not so. The system wasn't designed to bend, so it snaps. And if you don't believe me and think actually Charedim can pull it off, then Eretz haKodesh are not your guys, because they are genocidal maniacs who would make Israel flame out in some regional super-war like Nazi Germany if they got their way. So best for everyone - literally - if Charedim sit it out, and it really doesn't matter what the reason given for this is. This is daas Torah in action, non-ironically.
Or to put it more simply. The problem isn't the WZO, that's just an excuse. The problem is Eretz haKodesh.
I was concerned about this.
Do you have any specific examples of Zionistic propaganda promoted by Eretz Hakodesh to charedim that causes you concern and is this because of the EH leadership or would it be a problem with anything under the umbrella of WZO?
Pesach Lerner is the head of Eretz haKodesh. He has a fairly large internet footprint, and it's 1/3 attacking Reform, 1/3 pro Jonathan Pollard, and 1/3 miscellaneous Israeli jingoism. The Pollard stuff is most disturbing IMO, since he is on YouTube now every week discussing which country he would like to nuke today.
In terms of Charedim promoting outlandish Zionist militarism, I keep thinking of this gem: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89705b18-e8fb-4cfd-ba3c-775b58b73afa_1080x981.jpeg
To be fair to Pollard he has done one thing admirably: justify why the Israeli government didn't want to release him...
He did this time and was roundly mocked or ignored!
Israel Perpetrated 9/11 - an inside job - controlled demolition, and Israel Mossad had a hand in on it - setting up the demolition ordinances (Dancing Israelis).
https://open.substack.com/pub/edwardnathanschwarz/p/israel-perpetrated-911?r=5e930t&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
What was the name of the highjackers?
There were no hijackers. The planes were flown by remote control. Plane for building 7 lost control and they had to shoot it out of the air.
With intelligence like that no wonder you believe in Jesus.
Question: you claim you are a former Orthodox Jew. Can you tell me what lichtbentching is?
I went to Lakewood. Nobody Would talk to me. You call that pluralistic? I once went to the Yeshivia Talmudical Academy of Central NJ Adelphia. rabbi Trenk was my teacher. He died recently.
But still nobody would talk to me.
Pluralistic huh.
See that is what I mean? This exclusivising. I can’t be an orthodox Jew unless im YOUR yiddishkite version. I know what Benching after meals is. This licht-benching is you trying to tell me I’m not orthodox Jew if Im not YOUR heathen pagan nonsense version of it. You are hijackers of Torah authority and thieves. You sold my shul into idolatry and stole the money out of the community and dare to question my Orthodoxy.
this "individual Jewish community own path" is a THEIVING of Jewish institutions away from the Jewish general public and stolen into exclusivism. A Jewish institution is for all Jews from anywhere. But you will have it that any Jewish institution in a community is EXCLUSIVE to that community and not available to the general Jewish public except by invitation. You are destroyers of American Judaism. Destroyers of the Orthodox Union of American Synagogues. Destroyers of NCSY.
YOUR PLURALISM IS DIVISIONISM AND EXCLUSIVISM - "Satan's Hassidim" -Tales of the Hassidim.
No, I'm trying to show you are a liar and misrepresent yourself as an exorthodox Jew who now believes in Jesus when you clearly are not. You are faker than the 9/11 hijackers.
So why did you destroy NCSY? Why did you destroy the Orthodox Union of American Synagogues? Why did you frame up Baruch Lanner. Why did you sell my shul into idolatry and steel the money out of the community? Why when I go into what was an Orthodox Union syangogue they no longer sing the service like they used to, no longer the same order, deliberately sung out of unison, changed over the translations with false translations, removed all the kabbalistic songs out of the Haggada…. and act like I had to make an appointment to show up to a Jewish synagogue on Shabbos?
This is not communal growth - it is American Jewry subversion and theft of Jewish resources away from the general American Jewish community and exclusivising it’s administration under Zionist devils.
No, I’m telling the absolute truth. You Chabad sold my shul into idolatry - Yuseph Karlback -
You are as the Baal Shem Tov predicted. overrun by “Satan’s Hassidim” “causing division and undue hatred.”-Tales of the Hassidim.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/tales-of-the-hasidim--early-masters/13732272/item/42473335/?mkwid=%7cdc&pcrid=76622394858075&pkw=&pmt=be&slid=&product=42473335&plc=&pgrid=1225955760725441&ptaid=pla-4580221856976677&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+Low+Vol+Backlist+-+%2410+-+%2450&utm_term=&utm_content=%7cdc%7cpcrid%7c76622394858075%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7cbe%7cproduct%7c42473335%7cslid%7c%7cpgrid%7c1225955760725441%7cptaid%7cpla-4580221856976677%7c&msclkid=c0837d9c1f571c9a56ee159a746dc4ec#idiq=42473335&edition=58115782
There are many institutions which welcome all jews. Ever heard of Aish? NCSY? Chabad? what type of pluralism do you want? Dud they shun you for preaching a false subversive religion maybe?
why would mossad operatives dance after pulling off such a dangerous clandestine operation? they weren't caught dancing in Lebanon or Iran!
First let me give a full disclosure I voted for Eretz Hakadosh. My BIL is a candidate on their slate. My son (who is to the left of me) had a summer job setting up the elections, That said, this post badly mispresents their issue with voting in the WZO election. They don't claim to believe anyone will become an apikorus by doing so. They are inherently opposed to doing to so for the reasons they gave. Not made up ones of anyone becoming an apikorus in the future by doing so. The status quo of not voting in WZO election by ALL segments of the Charedi world is solidly on their side. And always has been. They aren’t remotely making a new ban and demanding people go along. They are fighting what they see as a serious breach. Unlike some of the other issues mentioned here, that serious as they are there, there is little they can do anything about anyway. they can prevent voting in WZO becoming the new norm by making an issue out of it. Finally lets say this would be the other way around and the Roshei Yeshiva would put enormous time and energy into addressing social issues that exists in Lakewood. Most of the people who ignore their views now, would ignore them then too.
I doubt that. They would have respect if they addressed them correctly.
And much of the rhetoric has been rhetoric of shmad.
Don't be so hard on the Kotler family (your note 5). The fact that in the Encyclopedia Judaica they were _zocheh_ to be right next to Sandy Koufax, the renowned Jewish baseball player who made a _Kiddush Hashem_ by refusing to pitch in the World Series on Yom Kippur, shows that they are themselves also not entirely without merit. (Contrary to appearances, lexicographical proximity of their surnames played no role in that.)
Which RY are you referring to in footnote 2?
Iykyk
The issue is I don't and am curious
Pm me
This is not referring to the kol koreh which I am fine with. It's referring to the asifa before the kol koreh, the protests outside peoples home who were for the WZO, and the pressure applied internally in the Agudah to release it. There were also two Lakewood kol korehs well before this Agudah one.
There was an energy put into this by Lakewood rabbanim we have not seen in other issues.
Look at the links in the previous article (near the end).