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Jethro's avatar

One of the major problems I found in the yeshiva world is the priority of ideals.

The masses have a hard time sifting messages that talk about ideals and apply it to themselves.

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זכרון דברים's avatar

Every nurse thinks their opinion on covid infection rates is תורת משה מסיני too.

There may be some yungeleit who are upset at leaving the walls of the Beis Hamedrash, and blame it on their Rebbe who told them to stay. That does not reflect an inherent problem. People are weak nowadays, and the slightest wobble sets them off.

When you find a healthy society that doesn't have expectations, get back to me.

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

Fair point.

However, It is reasonable to be upset at the person who you relied on and you built your identity around what he taught you.

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זכרון דברים's avatar

Is that a thing?

I learned in a Yeshiva, and do not 'rely' on the Rosh Yeshiva at all. He did a fine job then, and I moved on. I have a Rebbe nowadays too, but my identity isn't tied up with him. And I didn't choose him based on being impressed at the age of 19.

Most people I know have transcended their bochurishe impressions.

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test test's avatar

"Most people I know'. The issue not 'the most' is it?

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

I have seen a lot of this especially in the alef-yeshivos...

Many such cases..

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זכרון דברים's avatar

Not in South Fallsburg it doesn't.

In Paterson, they know that their RY will go to bat for them. Those who don't need him, dump him.

Bais Hatalmud is closed down.

Philadelphia and Long Beach had 'Gedolim' at their helm, it isn't about 'my Rebbe'.

Where else?

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

I don't want to do names..

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Building Worlds's avatar

While the Rosh Yeshiva has issues with his OTD son, it's most certainly true that the therapist isn't any better off. Therapist are almost always disturbed people - and I can't imagine that their children are any better off.

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Ash's avatar

Almost always!? 😲

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Wise Sage of Chelm's avatar

Do you disagree?

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

yes.

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Wise Sage of Chelm's avatar

It's well known that therapists often had a troubled background, and since they went through healing themselves they work to help others. With all the work they've done, I find that people that never went through "issues" are usually better off emotionally.

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

"It's well known that therapists often had a troubled background, and since they went through healing themselves they work to help others.'

this is often true

With all the work they've done, I find that people that never went through "issues" are usually better off emotionally.

I fully disagree with this

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Jethro's avatar

Can you provide evidence for this. I’m super curious to see.

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Wise Sage of Chelm's avatar

Don't know of any studies, but it's what I've heard and seems obvious from the therapists you see around. There's lots of chatter about it online as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askatherapist/comments/188tnje/are_most_therapists_healed_themselves/

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-therapists-seem-to-have-the-worst-past

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

I know the therapist.

All of his kids are frum and healthy.

You are proving the guest posters point in real time.

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Building Worlds's avatar

Every therapist that I personally know, thinks everyone is unhealthy....... that's unhealthy and part of what I meant by "disturbed".

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

You know bad, incompetent therapists

saying "almost always" is conflating the ones you know to all of them.

do better.

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Wise Sage of Chelm's avatar

I've taken a poll of numerous people that went to therapy in Lakewood, around 90% of therapists are reported to be bad and incompetent. And if they were recommended by relief there's a 100% incompetency rate.

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

sarcasm?

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Wise Sage of Chelm's avatar

No. Perhaps a slight exaggeration.

RELIEF is a fraud organization which should be shut down.

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Simon Furst's avatar

All of your posts are negative and destructive. So it tracks.

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Ash's avatar

Every last one

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Yosef Hirsh's avatar

LOL

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shulman's avatar

https://daastorah.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-the-radicalizing-rebbeim/comment/88405254

even if he is great magid shiur, a marbitz torah does not a leader make.

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Schmerel's avatar

Firstly, I question if the story is true. I never heard any Rosh Yeshiva say “mussar is the only thing you need to be emotionally healthy”. Words like "emotionally healthy” aren't typically used by Roshei Yeshiva speaking to ninth graders. But it just so happened to have been said and repeated by ninth grader in front of a therapist who deals with the Rosh Yeshiva's OTD son. Most OTD people wouldn't go to a frum therapist to begin with. Seeing the solicitations I get from Keren Ezer L'Nefesh it is very difficult to believe that the Roshei Yeshiva are so opposed to therapy these days. Secondly twenty five years ago I used to believe these type of letters from therapists painting themselves in such a wonderful light as dedicated altruists who have the answers to all societies problems. Today when they won the war and gained so much acceptance in the frum world I came to realize that their critics back then were really right about a lot of issues.

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Eli's avatar

Playing devils advocate here - when people make such claims against therapists, I don’t think they are against therapists per se, but rather the philosophical underpinnings of modern day psychology (often based on what appears to be its logical results).

I think a much more powerful claim would have been if “rosh yeshivas” had said years ago that they have no problem with the concept of a metal health practitioner, but we have a different idea of what a mentally healthy person looks like.

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Wise Sage of Chelm's avatar

I'd love to see a metal health practitioner

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Simon Furst's avatar

"Playing devils advocate here" -

Are you really?

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May 29
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זכרון דברים's avatar

Aren't you the bee's knees? Look at you. I bet you never end a sentence with a preposition, either. What a credit you are to your youth Bnei Akiva group.

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